E:
not at all! I've just been watching youtube videos about the EVIL MASONS
L:
lol
E:
which of course was the most exciting part of this week's reading
L:
that was a bit of a plot twist
E:
TWISTY. Pierre gets inducted into the Freemasons
L:
yes, it will all end very badly.
E:
I mean, probably?
L:
certainly
E:
how can you be so certain, Lindsay?! (humor me) (advocate!)
L:
well, it is turning him into even more of an idiot for one. he believes that he is helping the serfs. when in reality, he is not
E:
oh, that whole sequence was painful
L:
also he doesn't want their cause, he just needs A CAUSE. which is always the worst reason to join up with any cause
E:
the worst. anything else?
L:
I think it's a pretty solid argument. also I know that Tolstoy was not a fan of the Freemasons. he thought that they were idiots
E:
really?
L:
and I think that he is doing a fairly decent job of portraying them as such
E:
I mean, I'm not surprised
L:
yes, he did not agree with their principles. and I think that the whole reason for bringing them into the story was so that the conversation with Pierre and Andrew could arise
E:
which was a great conversation!
L:
yes
E:
in which I thought they were both wrong. but appropriately so
L:
I think that you would ultimately aim for a balance between their two arguments
E:
exactly! which is why the "buddy" dynamic works so well. lethal weapon. wayne's world. bill and ted. which we all know I'm very serious about. but yeah, the first rule of masonry (or the first of the seven virtues) is "discretion." i.e., don't talk about fight club. which he immediately breaks to have something to talk to Andrei about
L:
he's an inconsistent fellow that Pierre
E:
I'm really, like, enjoying his oafishness. like, it's kind of adorable? so long as I'm not the one who has to deal with him?
L:
he's the friend in every group that never has a clue, but you're obligated to love. in a "glad I'm not that guy" way
E:
yes. I'm reminded a lot of Ignatius in Confederacy of Dunces, but weak-willed? which obviously came way after, but whatever
L:
oh, I have not read.
E:
nevermind! who would you have play Pierre in the film? I'm thinking Jonah Hill (even though he lost a lot of weight recently) sweet, oafish
L:
hm. maybe Jason Segel?
E:
oh that's good too
L:
more oafish, less sarcastic
E:
sure. like, amiably "simple" maybe? not a brooder, which is what we'd need for Andrei. who should be a dashing lead, probs
L:
Leo! (kidding)
E:
ha
L:
he's already ruining Gatsby
E:
ruining! (?) (I'll have to watch it. it might work?)
L:
I am not thrilled about that version. and I love Luhrman's version of Romeo and Juliet
E:
I liked it too! but it was also the first film version I saw
L:
really?
E:
yes (high school girlfriend and her friends all wanted to see it, so ...) high school!
L:
I definitely saw the one with Olivia Hussey's boobs first. and then Claire Danes second
E:
waitwaitwait her boobs?
L:
yah it was scandalous cause we were freshmen in highschool, and during the bedroom scene... bam. there they were
E:
wow. I guess that explains why we didn't see it in my high school
L:
but yah anyway, I like that R + J was adaptable to Luhrman's style, but it's something about the way that the prose in Gatsby is so... simple and understated. and then Luhrman is so gaudy and flashy
E:
yeah I agree
L:
it doesn't work for me?
E:
the tone is totally different
L:
PLUS CAREY MULLIGAN IS NO MIA FARROW
E:
haha
L:
anyway
E:
time will tell!
L:
off track
E:
yes, anyway. so Pierre joined up with the creepy, silly Masons, who I can't take seriously because of the Stonecutter episode of the Simpsons. but also, plenty of well-known people have been Masons, and they're usually silly or boring. like Phil Collins. and Gerald Ford (but no president since him, apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons). you can also buy Freemasons rings on eBay? so, I'm not sure they're such a threat to ... like, anything?
L:
PHIL COLLINS???
E:
Phil. Collins.
L:
wtf
E:
Nat King Cole!
L:
this is really affecting my love for Genesis.
E:
Mel Blanc! the voice of Bugs Bunny!
L:
okay stop. you're ruining my childhood.
E:
haha. don't click on that link!!!! ok, but so Pierre is obviously in need of guidance, following his duel
L:
everyone is in need of guidance in this book. and life in general. but you know
E:
and we don't learn who sent that anonymous letter to him! about his wife's infidelity! which she denied!
L:
this was basically the portion where everyone said, "let's be morons"
E:
LOL. nice
L:
well it's true
E:
well, there's no War going on, so ...
L:
Nic went through the whole gambling bit. Andrei is living in a shack
E:
oh, that was so stupid!
L:
Mary is doing... whatever she is doing. Andrei's papa is causing havoc with the troops
E:
Mary is doing Mary right now, mK?
L:
the Tsar is in cahoots with Napoleon
E:
they agreed to a PeaCE! after all the death!!!!!
L:
Densinov is dying in a hospital because he doesn't want to get demoted.
E:
DEATH! it is all so ridiculous and dramatic
L:
Petersberg society is always cray. Moscow is no better. everyone is an idiot
E:
all them society parties. making them dullards
L:
so basically Tolstoy really hammered it home that some things need to change
E:
yes
L:
I have a feeling this will go on for a few more sections though, as he is wont to do
E:
they are all floundering. we can legitimately say we are a third of the way through this. now comes the second act!
L:
I don't think we can turn back now
E:
oh I'm in it
L:
and honestly I blame you. haha. cause if I didn't have some sort of external responsibility, I would have given up on the freemasons
E:
you started this!
L:
you made the Tumblr.
E:
true
L:
true. HAHAHAHA. so the hospital scene was quite sad
E:
yes
L:
I was moved by the hospital scene
E:
especially because we know that medical science in 1807 was not what it is now. like, getting sent to any hospital was damn near a death sentence. just as child birth was a really iffy event for women until the 20th century
L:
and we see both end in death in this section
E:
ooh, I didn't even really put that together until you just ... the road to war leads to death. peace (or, marriage? family life?) leads to the same
L:
well I think eventually the point is that everything leads to death. what choices will you make? how will you conduct your life? what will you do with the choices that are given to you? that is the point I am seeing of this insanely long book anyway
E:
Tolstoy likes to mine the BIG QUESTIONS. we knew this about him
L:
we did.
E:
I have to say, I really appreciate the conversation between Pierre and Andrei, because while they were both expressing their half-formed opinions
L:
I actually did enjoy that part as well. I thought Andrei seemed a bit more enlightened.
E:
it seems that Pierre's exuberance for his newfound ridiculous cult brought Andrei out of his despair. because while half-formed, we can agree that the Masonic virtues are not all bad? or was it merely his exuberance?
L:
I highly dislike Masonic view
E:
and it was really .. precious? that Andrei considers his father, son, and sister himself?
L:
that was pretty preesh
E:
both touching and telling
L:
Masonic views remind me of religious education classes.
E:
sure. they love structure! and RULES
L:
like being indoctrinated into beliefs does not gel with me
E:
preaching to the choir here, so to speak
L:
so I don't agree with them being a good thing, I also think that they would prey on a person like Pierre
E:
you mean rich and clueless?
L:
it's an exploitation of his weaknesses. yes, asbolutely
E:
yes. more money for beers, dawg! like, the overlap between college fraternities and fraternal orders is almost total for me
L:
yeech
E:
BUT! good morals, love of mankind, courage, generosity. these are virtues? AND! they did rep with "sic transit gloria mundi": glory fades, as Miss Cross puts it in Rushmore. and I was so dearly interested in GLORY just last week
L:
doesn't Max say that? you were, so were you disappointed by this section then? as we start to see the "benefits" of glory?
E:
yes, but I think he got it from her originally? (been a while since I watched it) not at all! this is exactly where I felt the paths of "glory" were to lead
L:
and yet you are still captivated by it?
E:
searching for a higher, less worldly glory
L:
that's interesting
E:
I only said I understood the search for glory. I mean, I was interested in glory as a theme. I mean, sure, if anyone wants to make a Franzen out of me, I'll bite
L:
hahahah. I was so lucky to stumble on that article. crazy coincidence
E:
yeah, that was funny. and I read about 1/4 into it and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (that guy can be so boring) (especially when talking about himself)
L:
does he talk about anything else? birds sometimes?
E:
hahaha. he loves birds. he wants to put birds on it
L:
I am still waiting for the day when I see his book cover as a tattoo
E:
ugh. barf
L:
okay so. final thoughts? feelings?
E:
yes, final thoughts. uh ... this was a particularly emotional section, especially at the death of Princess Liza
L:
meh
E:
and witnessing Andrei's reaction. I really felt for the guy
L:
well I mean, sure NOW it's easy to love her when she's DEAD
E:
(her I had little invested in)
L:
I don't have a lot of pity for Andrei
E:
I mean, independent of his selfish quest for glory, he did suffer a terrible loss there, even though he maybe didn't appreciate it when he had the chance. oh, and maybe it was Liza that sent the anonymous letter to Pierre about his wife and Dolokhov! or that's what I felt was implied
L:
do you think that is going to be an important plot point? I have not even thought about it to be honest
E:
idk. it's a mystery? I wouldn't put it past Tolstoy to return to it, but ... ??? it does almost seem like a device just to get Pierre out of his marriage and develop Dolokhov a bit more
L:
that's how I saw it
E:
I'm all about the mystery! this section delivered on the dramatics, is all. but now a peace has been brokered. I GUESS THAT'S IT FOR THE WAR STUFF ;)
L:
yes cause we all know that it works out for Napoleon
E:
winkwink. no spoilers! (he invades Russia) well I'm kinda hooked. I expect many more philosophical discussions. and death. lots more death
L:
yah, I hope some more of these characters die
E:
hahaha (me too)
L:
I could do without Nic. Boris too. we can lose him
E:
yeah, my sympathy for both of them is wearing thin. if Tolstoy wants to make examples of them ...
L:
we're stuck with Pierre til the end.
E:
I'm ok with that. I feel like he'll come around
L:
okay Erik, I am running out of steam. I should probably hit the hay.
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